Today Dannie and Caitlyn are talking with Belma McCaffrey of Work Bigger.

We believe in accessible content and that anyone who wants to learn from this content should be able to. In order to support this, we’ve had every episode of Season 4 transcribed. The transcriptions are available at the bottom of every episode blog post.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS:

• What it takes to get your side hustle off the ground and into a full-time gig.

• Knowing when it is time to make pivots in your side hustle.

• Connecting with your pain points and coming back stronger from them.

•  Audio Freebie!

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Episode Transcript

Belma McCaffrey

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:21] Hello and welcome back to the side hustle gal podcast. We're so excited to have Belma McCaffrey here today from work, bigger talking about all things side hustling, and Belma. Thank you so much for being here today. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:00:34] My pleasure. Hi ladies. Thank you so much for having me. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:00:39] Of course, we'd love to hear from you a little bit about what you do and why you identify as a side hustler.

Belma McCaffrey: [00:00:45] Yeah. Uh, so I run a career development coaching platform called work bigger. And our mission is to help people do work they love. That makes an impact that makes a difference in the world without burning out. And we do that through a group coaching membership. We do that through, um, private coaching and also working with organizations to lead to lead trainings.

And I identify as a side hustler because work bigger was a side hustle for, I want to say a little more than two years. Uh, before I started running it full time. And that experience of building, launching, building, and just running a business as a side hustle taught me so much about myself and what it takes to get something off the ground.

And it was. I couldn't have done it without really starting it as, as a side hustle. So yeah, that's why I really, I really connect to the work you ladies are doing here with the podcast. And you know, um, when I heard about you guys, I was like, yes, this is awesome. I know there's like a whole movement of side hustle happening cause I think people are really looking to bring their dreams and their goals to life.

And you can always do it by jumping into it full time. It's not, it's not realistic or possible for everyone. So. Um, being able to start something while you're still working, I think is, it's just powerful. It allows you to get to that, you know, to that longer term vision that you have. 

Caitlyn Allen: [00:02:19] Yeah. And I feel like it also allows you to have art to like express passion that you might not be able to in your everyday life or your corporate job, um, on the side as well. So it keeps you, I dunno, for me, when I first started out, it kept me very motivated in my corporate job as well as like, because I was. Finally feeling passionate again, I guess, if that makes sense. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:02:44] Absolutely. It's, um, you're like filling gaps that you can't fill with your, with your nine to five, right. Or with your like full time job. And that's, um. Yeah. And I can share more too about like why I started work bigger and, and all of that, if that'd be helpful for you guys. But 

Caitlyn Allen: [00:03:03] yeah, we'd love to hear, we'd love to hear more. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:03:06] Yeah. Um, so I started work bigger because of a personal pain point. I, I spent all of my twenties. I was really ambitious and driven like, right as soon as I graduated college.

Uh, but I. You know, I was like excited to be working. I just felt really lost and disconnected a few months into my first job, and I thought the pro, like I thought the job was the problem. I was like, Oh, this just isn't the right job. So. I'm going to go find another job. And I did. And I approached that job.

That other job would like that same like ambition and excitement, but then I would hit a wall and I realized from like, you know, even my college years, I was like approaching my career path just without clarity, without intention. I was trying to answer that question of what do I want to be when I grow up and what do I want to do with my own life?

And. It was really hard. So after working in media for about seven years, I decided to go back to business school full time. So I gave up a pretty. Pretty good salary too, for like for the age that I was at. Uh, and I S yeah, I gave up that salary. I had to pay like all of the tuition that comes with, with business school.

And that's where I saw that all of my classmates are kind of in the same boat. Everybody was like, Oh, we're here in business school cause we're hoping to pivot and we don't know exactly what we want to do with that. But you know, maybe this will be our chance to like do it over. And as I, you know, as I thought about that and just continue to business school, I was like, this is pretty crazy.

Like we're spending all this money. And all this time, and we're still not clear if we're going to get the ROI we're looking for, right? Like maybe we'll make more money, but is it gonna fill that gap that we're all looking to fill with with our careers? So that's kind of when I fell into pers, a professional development and coaching and started really thinking about what can we do to solve this problem, right?

So that we're not spending all this money on grad school. We're really approaching it from a place of intention and clarity and where we have morer purpose behind what we are doing.

So that's, that's why it started. And I also started to see too that as people stayed in this like cycle, I really talk about it as a cycle, right? You like test one job. It's not it. You test another job, you test another job, and then all of the meanwhile you're kind of like stuck in this place of frustration trying to figure it out and it's not working.

I started to see that the longer people were in the cycle, the more they were making compromises and giving up on the things that they really wanted. Like it's okay if I don't, um. Fulfill my longterm dream. I'll just stick with like making some money or it's okay if I don't make a lot of money. And I just thought I was like, what a shame.

Like people are giving up on the stuff they really desire because they aren't seeing that it's possible. So that's why I started it. It just came from like that personal struggle and I was like, this is, this is ridiculous. Like we need to do something. Something about this. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:06:06] That's honestly so relatable. Um, the audience knows that I work at Google in my nine to five, and there's this like assumption that those elite companies, right?

You never experience things like this. Um, but even there, there's. There's a feeling of getting trapped in, of getting stuck in that cycle. Have you heard of the book pivot by Jenny Blake? It's this book cause that talks about, uh, like thinking about your career as pivot points instead of this ladder thing and that seems so in alignment with what you're doing, like setting people up to make those pivots. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:06:48] Yeah, I have heard of that book and I think her, her work is incredible. Um, exactly. And it's about too, like making those pivots, knowing what you're trying out and. You know, putting, you know, intention behind, there's different experiments and tests, right. Versus being like, okay, I'm going to try this, but like, I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to get out of it. Right. So you have like clear metrics in terms of what you want to get. Yeah. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:15] So I'm curious, you talk about this being a loop and a loop can kind of go two directions, right? The loop can either suck you in tighter and tighter and tighter, so it's impossible to escape that circle, or the loop can propel you out and spit you out really fast and hard. And I'm curious what advice you would give to people trying to achieve that second thing while they're stuck in the loop. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:07:44] So the loop that propels you out as the propelling of positive, or is it like, I'm so burned out, I'm just giving up? Or like I need to take like a break. What is, how do you define us for talent?

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:07:55] But it honestly could go either way, right? Like you get chewed up in spat out or you get propelled into the next best thing. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:08:03] Yeah, so I love, I love that you use that example. I think the propelling, like the way I see that happening, and I talk about this too at work bigger is you get this feeling right then I'm like, I need to get out of the cycle, and then you start to, it's kind of what happened to me. I see. I was like, I need to use this stressful experience and I need to make something of it. Um, so I do think a positive can come out of that, and what I encourage people to do is that when they're feeling that like, I'm ready, I need to do something different. I'm really done with this cycle. Take advantage of that moment.

Don't ignore that because it's when you ignore that, that you can then like stuck in that cycle that like just gets tighter and tighter. Right? So it's really about listening to yourself. And if you don't know how, right, you're like, okay, well I'm going to break the cycle. I don't know how get help. Cause there's, I think there's so many people now who are looking for that and working through that. Um, but I think the first step is to listen to your voice. Listen to like that thing  that's telling you to do something different. That's that I think is such an important moment. 

Caitlyn Allen: [00:09:11] And how would you say.  I think that I can relate to that on so many different levels because I, I was AmeriCorps Vista, which is domestic peace Corps, and when I started my, that's when I started my side hustle because Dannie's awesome and brought me in and was like, Hey, Caitlyn, I need help. Um, so. I can relate to getting out of the cycle of saying, I hate my job 24/7 or I hate this lifestyle because it's what I've chosen, even though, you know, I've signed a contract or whatever. But I think having that second job the. Being able to help other people on top of what I was doing, which if you are AmeriCorps or have ever been AmeriCorps, you totally understand that you are helping people in that capacity as well, but being able to do it and like your own way or doing something different only in the end. Can help uplift you out of like a dark, like a whole  you feel like you're in, especially in corporate America or in a job that you just absolutely you think that you hate, but you really don't hate what, what would be, what do you think is the first step to, um. I guess like starting your side hustle or , you know, transitioning into starting a business. How, how did you do that transition and what would you say is a recommendation that you would see. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:10:42] Yeah, so it took me a few iterations. It was not like so clear cut at all. Actually, before business school, I had all of these ideas. I started making jewelry. I wanted to open a food truck with my family because we're Albanian and my mom makes this incredible food and I'm like, we need to like make a business mom out of your, all of your amazing meals.

So I had all of these ideas, you know, nothing was really clicking or working. And then when I went to business school, I partnered with two friends and we started a company called bold, and it was similar to work bigger and that it was focused on coaching. It was focused on supporting women, it was focused on career development, and that was a side hustle for good.

Oh, you know, we started a while. We were in school, I graduated, I found out I was pregnant with my first child, and then I accepted a full time role at the associated press, but I was so dead set on being an entrepreneur that I was like, I'm going to continue this. I'm going to keep building it, and. I did that for about a year and a half, and that was really challenging.

It didn't work. We had to shut it down, you know, I burned out really badly. But these experiences of testing things and trying things out, and also really connecting to my own. Personal pain points and giving myself some time like I did some, I did some work on myself. I really dug deep and try to figure out like, what is it that you know that I gravitate to?

What am I interests say about me? What do my strengths say about me? Like I started doing a lot of the coaching work that I now teach, and that allowed me to commit to this path that then, you know, when we shut down that business bold. Which was so painful, you know, I thought that was going to be the one.

Um, but when we shut that down, it allowed me to pivot to work bigger. Um, so it was a few iterations, but also really looking and understanding things like my why and understanding who I was and using that to anchor my decisions on what I was going to build. Right. So. I think you can do it that way. I think you can also like, I love what you guys said about using it to fill in certain gaps that you are currently experiencing in the workplace.

I was also experiencing certain gaps in the workplace. I didn't have enough autonomy. I knew I wanted to constantly be creating, I was in a business development roles. So it allowed for, you know, relationship building and strategy are like my two like biggest skills. And I was able to leverage the relationship building piece and some of the strategy piece, but it wasn't enough.

So I also started to, like when I started the side hustle, I started to do things that I wasn't able to do, like more writing. You know, work bigger started as a blog. And I saw, I was like, wow. I was like, writing really gets me in the zone and it allows me to access this part of my brain that's really creative that I wasn't doing in my nine to five.

And that started to also clue me in on my strengths and the things that I like to do so that I could, you know, build the business around those things. So it's such a process. It's like, but you just got to do it. You just got to try something. I think. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:14:03] I definitely agree. I want to pivot briefly because you mentioned strengths, and before we jumped on the recording, we were talking about, um, the creative at heart stuff that was going on. And I'm curious, being Albanian, you have this white straight passing privilege that I also experience as a Latino woman. Uh, and I'm curious what your thoughts are on leaning into your strengths. When it comes to like your ethnic and religious and cultural diversity, um, when you have that weight straight passing privilege and how you leverage that superpower, as I like to call that.

Belma McCaffrey: [00:14:46] So to make sure I'm, I'm understanding and hearing your question right, you're saying, how do I leverage my background as a strength? 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:14:56] Exactly. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:14:57] Okay. Yeah. Um, it's interesting. Yeah. I'm, I'm white. Um, I'm an immigrant. I'm also Muslim by family, which you would never know if you looked at me. Um, so actually when all the immigration stuff was happening and there was just so much racism going on, um, towards Muslim people, I. Felt all of that. Like a lot of it really personally and deeply, even though being able to you, you weren't allowed to practice religion because Albania was a communist country, so like they got red of a lot of the mosques are like, you weren't, you just weren't a lots of practice. I didn't grow up with a lot of the traditions, but they didn't have a huge impact on like my dad and like the way he raised us and all of that.

I felt all of that, but I didn't experience any of the racism directly because most people don't know that I'm Muslim. Right? Cause I don't practice and I'm white. So, um, the way I use just being Albanian and even outside of, you know, being Muslim as a strength is I really just have been connecting more deeply to my heritage and, and to that part of me, like the summer.

We went this past summer, I took a big trip with my parents, my siblings, our kids tell me, I know it was so incredible and you know, I'm like sitting there on the beach and my mom is talking, we're talking about the Albanian people and she talks about work and she said to work hardest to love life. And for me, I was like, well, this connects with everything that I'm doing with my life in terms of work bigger and I bring that stuff forward.

I share that because. You know, building work bigger is also so deeply connected to me, being Albanian and to me seeing the struggles that my parents faced. So, and that I faced, like I left there when I was eight, you know, and I remember we didn't have like anything to play with when we were kids. I had like two colored pencils.

We had, you know, we didn't have a lot, you know, and I went and I looked at the apartment building our we lived, and it's, it's, you know, it's not in good condition. You know, and it didn't look like that much better when I lived there. So I turned that into a strength because I use my personal experiences and my personal pain points to bring purpose to my work.

Just like, just like I did with my experience working in corporate. Right. And the disconnection I was facing there. Um, that's how it comes into play for me. And. Yeah. I just feel like it's such a part of who I am. And for a while I just disconnected from Albanian heritage. I, um, had him the back in many years. So it just feels really awesome to connect to it. And to bring, you don't have to think about like, what are the Albanian people like? Right? And what are those parts of that culture that like really live in me like really deeply and that I can, I can bring forward so. Yeah. Does that answer your question?

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:18:07] That was so beautiful. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:18:09] Aw, thank you. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:18:11] That was amazing. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:18:12] Thank you. 

Caitlyn Allen: [00:18:14] I'm excited to hear a little bit about , like using your culture and how, how does that, or does it play a role in your business now? So. I know that Dannie, with the creative at heart experience or creative at heart conference has spoken out specifically for diversity. Um, but do you, is that influential on your business at all? 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:18:45] Okay. Yeah. So Albania is traditionally a very patriarchal. Culture and I experienced a lot of that growing up and it had a big impact on me. And it's a lot of stuff that I've had to unlearn, right? Just in terms of, you know, women are inferior to men, all of this stuff that like honestly drives me nuts and makes my blood boil, but there is a reason like work bigger.

You know, I coached men and women, but work bigger. There's  mostly made of women. Um, there's a reason that I've always gravitated to the gender gap and to women's rights. And it's cause I experienced that myself as a kid and I experienced like seeing my mom this incredibly. Strong, amazing woman. I experienced the bitterness.

She feels because of the patriarchy and despite Albania, like despite like those are like the traditions. My mom always raised us very differently. Like she just was like, she like didn't. Buy into those beliefs in many ways. And my dad too, right? Like, we moved here. There was never, um, distinction of like, you're a girl so you can't go to school.

It was never that extreme. I'm with my dad. It was like a little bit more subtle, just like with the dating stuff, you know, my brother versus my sister. And I like, there was like more bias there. But in terms of opportunities, I was lucky in that my parents are more forward thinking. Uh, but I really, I, I.

It's a part of the Albanian culture that I always struggled with when I was younger. I was like, I don't get it. You know? And then sexuality too, like the way people talk about sexuality, like there's just like a lot of, um, close, like it's closed off. Like it's not like a very open culture. So. That stuff plays a role into my work because you know, for work bigger, and even when I started doing bold, I focused heavily on women and you know, I think, um, helping women overcome a lot of the issues like that, that show up around confidence, right?

And imposter syndrome and feeling like you're an inferior and feeling like you can't negotiate and ask for more money cause it's, it's impolite. I was always taught that, don't raise your voice too loud, don't speak up. It's impolite. Respect your elders. Right? Um, I've had to really work through all that stuff for myself, so I could also speak.

Um, to my own needs. So yeah, it plays a role. It plays a role in, in how I coach people, what I coach them on. All that stuff shows up in our work cause we're not raising our hands for opportunities. We're like, you know, staying quietly, waiting to be asked. So, no, I like that. That's not going to work anymore.

Caitlyn Allen: [00:21:34] That's, that's all that's, yeah. That's so cool. I think I, I am obviously white, very American, have no, like. I almost said no culture. That's not right. You know what I mean? I don't have, I'm not different, but I know that living here in Arizona has been so interesting because. I can easily go through a border patrol checkpoint and never be asked my citizenship. Like, that's insane. Like that's literally their job is to ask you your citizenship. And I don't even get asked. Now if I have my native American friends with me, I'm automatically stopped. Um, so that has been. Super influential in the way that I have started thinking in the back of my head every time that I have to go through a checkpoint because to leave my town, I have to. Um, and then seeing the way that, um, at least where I live, the way that Mexican women and the way that Mexican men are treated very differently. Um, I remember my first Christmas with my adopted Mexican family. We had cooked all day and the men sat down at the table and ate first, and we couldn't even touch the food until they were done at the table, which was insane. And soI think for business, it's so awesome to hear women speaking up for other women, and I'm not saying like speak up for them or talk for them, but to be able to lift those voices up because. I, I can't imagine being in a culture that's telling me, well, you're next. You're not first, you're next. Um, it's just so inspiring to hear women of other cultures lifting other women up too. So I guess that was a long winded message of me saying like, thank you. Thank you for the work that you're doing. I really appreciate it. And there are so many, so many women out there that. Need to hear that, and I think I'm just, I'm excited to share this episode in particular. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:23:47] Yeah. Thank you for sharing that in the example you bring out. That's it's, that's so fascinating, right? And it's like when you're like, I'm just thinking back to like growing up, it's like the women were the ones who were always cleaning up. Like after dinner, the women are the ones who are cooking and cleaning and all of that stuff. And. For me. I don't know. That didn't, just didn't sit well with me since I was a little girl, you know? I just didn't like it and I always questioned it. So I thank you for like just for saying everything you said, because yeah, I'm like, I just think we can be different. Like we can respect traditions and honor cultures and all of that, but I think it's important for everyone to feel seen and heard and respected and not, you know, not be second. You know? 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:24:36] So I want to celebrate the power of speaking up and sharing our accomplishments even when we work in environments or experienced cultures where that's not normal. So I'd love to know what is something that you've accomplished in the past year that either blows your mind that you accomplished it, or like you're just really proud of accomplishing this thing.

Belma McCaffrey: [00:25:01] Yeah. Thank you for asking that. It's such a good question. Um, so I launched the work bigger community last and April of 2019. Just, yeah, less than a year ago. Um, it's a, it's a membership community really. Primarily what, what members get is group coaching and it makes coaching more affordable, more accessible.

And I really, it took me a long time to launch it. I was so nervous. I had a free community before that and I just was really stuck. I was like, do I shut down this community? What is that going to be like? Um. And as the community keeps growing, and you know, we're now almost a year into it, not quite yet. It just has evolved into this awesome product. Like the  content in the trainings we have in there are so good and the members are amazing and everybody's like showing up to help each other. And there's just so much like authenticity and connection and support in the group and its  becoming what I always wanted to make available for um. It's what I needed, but it's also like what I see. I'm like, this is what I wanted to make possible and what I wanted to make available in the world. And that's what it's turning into. You know? And it's, it's not a year old yet, but I just am feeling so proud of. Like, you know, what we've built and in a short amount of time, I'd say so. Yeah. So I'm really, really proud of that.

Caitlyn Allen: [00:26:31] That's so cool. I'm so excited to check it out. Um, I heard that you have a freebie, so I'd love to hear more about that. And can you tell our audience where they can find you. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:26:43] Yeah. Uh, so you can find me. The website is worth bigger.co uh, you can also find us on Instagram at work bigger. Uh, we're starting to be more active on there and we offer like, you know, just a little fun coaching exercises to keep people growing and learning. Uh, the freebie we have is we have a free audio training to help you overcome and work through your burnout. So if you're feeling. Really stress, I think especially if you, um, are launching the side hustle, running a side hustle, thinking about it, this is really important. I burned out really badly when I started my first side hustle.

Um, so this is an audio training to help support you and, uh, just pick up some quick practical tools that you can put into action to help you work through your overwhelm. And burnout. Um, and the place to find that is workbigger.co/sidehustlegal. So it's the name of, of your podcasts. So work bigger.co forward slash side hustle gal.

And yeah, there's three parts to it. It's really, and it's called take the first step to break the cycle of burnout and do work you love faster. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:27:56] That's amazing. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much as well for hanging out with us today. This is a fantastic episode. 

Belma McCaffrey: [00:28:07] Thank you ladies. It's, it's my pleasure. And you asked some really fun questions and, um, I appreciate you just giving me the space to, to share my story and to, to share more about work bigger and I love what, what you guys are doing as well, so thank you. 

Dannie Lynn Fountain: [00:28:22] Thank you.